Muruga
[Tolkaappiyar] Re: [akandabaratam] Etymology of the divine name Muruku/Murukan Inbox
K. Loganathan
to akandabaratam, meykandar, Tolkaappiyar …
Dear FB
Thank-you for drawing my attention to this paper by I. Mahadevan and with which I am not in full agreement. It appears a number of words of different etymological origins are lumped together. Also all these etymas are derived from languages later than 500 BC, the oldest dates for CaGkam Tamil. It is also well known that Burrow Emeneau and many other scholars do not take SumeroTamil in their etymological studies. Furthermore as PavaNar had pointed out, a collection of words of similar meaning is just the first step in the recovery of the original meaning. And this original meaning may not always be the most common and so forth. So I disagree with I,M when he says< The two sets of etyma in (c) and (d) taken together indicate that the original name of the deity was something like * mur/mur-V andthat his essential traits were those of a fierce god, destroyer or hunter. >>
This meaning does not fit at all the Su, Muru and Enmerukar who is described as the Son of Utu, the Sun God. The original meaning must have been Ta, meruku, meru meaning to shine forth , to make shine brilliantly and so forth.
Let me recall the second line from Temple Hymn 10 (c,. 2300 BC) and which is wrongly translated.
Temple Hymn 10
2(136)
eden muru sa-ta me su-ti ( plain (with) heavy clouds, taking the me’s from its midst)
Ta. eetil muru saaytta mey cooti ( Plain that is brilliant and in the interior of which burns the true Radiance)
Anyone familiar with Tamil will see that Su, muru is Ta, meru and which goes well with su-ti and which Ta, cooti ( Sk jyoti) brilliant flame and so forth.
Thus Muruka or Su, EnMerukar is the Deity behind the flow of brilliant light that destroys the DATKNESS in the wolrd, This, by the wau is the meanibg of Kaartikeeyan which can be taken as Ta, kaar(darkness) tii( to burn( kaayans( the one who shines, Thus Kaatikeeyan is the deity who shines(kaay) and burn( tii) and with that destroys Darkness( kaar)
This meaning also goes well with EnMerkar being described as the Son of Utu, the Sun God and which is a metaphorical way of saying that Muruka is the RAYS of brilliant light that flows into the world from a primordial source of Intense Light m the Utu- something like the astronomical sun.
Of course such meanings as to shrivel, dry up decay and so forth may be secondary and associated meanings. The radiant light can also dry up cause something shrivel and so forth because of the HEAT it comes along with. , And since it destroys DATKNESS it can also be described as a destroyer as is the case with Rudra and which name is derived from Su,urudu meaning ‘copper’
You can see how illuminating it is to bring in the Sumerian language into such studies, something I have been urging for decades.
I hope the prejudices against linking Sumerian with Dravidian is overcome and real objectivity comes to prevail.’
Loga
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akandabaratam/message/24487
Etymology of the divine name Muruku/Murukan
Dear Dr. Loganathan,
— In akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com, “K. Loganathan”
>
> In Sumerian times itsefl we find the name EnMerukar. Also in such
> metaphysical statements as “eden muru sa-ta me su-ti” (Ta, eetil
> muru saaittu mey sooti: in the midst of the field of brilliance we
> have the genuine radiance) we have references to Muruka, a deity
> also worshipped in East Africa and Egypt.
Re: the etymology of the divine name Muruku/Murukan, have you ever
seen this online paper by I. Mahadevan?
http://www.murugan.org/research/mahadevan.htm
<< An attempt will be made in this section to discover the probable
original name and nature of the deity by searching through the
Dravidian (Dr.) etyma [...].
(a) `To be shrivelled' (DEDR 4972):
Ma. muratuka: to shrivel; muraluka: id., decay.
Ka. muratu, murutu, muruntu: shrink, shrivel.
Tu. muruntu: shrunk, shrivelled.
Nk. mural: to wither.
Kur. murdna: to be dried to excess.
(b) `To be contracted' (DEDR 4977):
Ta. muri: to bend; murivu: contracting, fold; muri (nimir): (to
stretch by) winding limbs.
Ka. murige: bending, twisting; muruhu: a bend, curve, a crooked
object;
Ka. muratu, murutu, muruntu: to be bent or drawn together, state of
being contracted.(DEDR 4972).
Tu. muri: curve, twist; murige: twist.
Pa. murg: to be bent; murgal: hunchback.
Ga. murg: to bend; murgen: bent; murug: to bend down.
Go. moorga: humpbacked.
(cf: Pkt. muria: twisted; old Mar. mured: to twist.)
We may infer from the linguistic data summarised in (a) and (b) that
PDr. * mur/mur-V is the primitive root from which words with the
meanings `shrivelled' and `contracted' have been derived.
[...]
(c) `Strong, fierce, wild, fighting' (DEDR 4971) :
Ta. muratu: ill-temper, wildness, rudeness; muran: fight, battle,
fierceness, strength.
Ma. muran: fight, strength.
Ko. mort: violence (of action); mordn: violent man.
Tu. murle: quarrelsome man.
Te. moratu: rude man.
(d) `To destroy, kill' (DEDR.4975) :
Ta. murukku: to destroy, kill; murunku : to be destroyed.
Ma. muruka: to cut.
Kol., Nk. murk: to split, break.
Kui. mrupka: to kill, murder.
Kur. murukna: to mangle, mutilate.
Malt. murke: to cut into bits.
(e) `Ancient' (DEDR. 4969) :
Ta. murancu: to be old, ancient; muri: antiquity.
Kol., Pa. murtal: old woman.
Nk: murtal : old woman.
Go. mur-: to mature.
The two sets of etyma in (c) and (d) taken together indicate that
the original name of the deity was something like * mur/mur-V and
that his essential traits were those of a fierce god, destroyer or
hunter. >>
As usual, “very interesting conjectures”!!
Best regards,
Francesco
K. Loganathan
to akandabaratam, meykandar, Tolkaappiyar …
Dear FB
Our differences of opinion on the relationship between Sk and Tamil are fundamental and cannot be resolved satisfactorily till the Sumerian language is brought into the etymological and other studies.
My claim is that the whole of Sk language is a derivative of Archaic Tamil and which is the same as SumeroTamil.
The Ta, word ‘kaar’ ‘kari’ and so forth has Sumerian roots like ‘gir’ which means to burn, char and so forth. This might have given rise to Sk gr(i)ha : house but originally perhaps kitchen
Now in Sumerian we have also :gur’ the Ta, kuR, kuRai with the meanings to divide, cut reduce and so forth and which is Sk KRI as you mention.
You can convince me that the Sk root is different from Tamil only if you can show me that it cannot be related to SumeroTamil. You have to show me that KRI cannot be related to SumeroTamil the literature of which goes back to the 4th millenniu,m BC by general consnsus. From the contributiins of Witzel and so forth the Vedas are taken to be only later than 1500 BC and with which I tend to agree but for different reasons.
By the the way Kartikai makaLir who natured Muruka the Fire Ball when he fell into SaravaNa poykai to cool down exists in Sumerian as the ‘abgal imin-e” the great seven, This puraNic theme is also present in the Egyptian mythologies ( I think) This may be the same also as the Sapta Rishi where the word ’sapta’ as Dr Jacob has pointed out is Akkadian in origin.
Loga
Dear Dr. Loganathan.
— In akandabaratam@ yahoogroups. com, “K. Loganathan”
> the meanibg of Kaartikeeyan which can be taken as Ta. kaar
> (darkness) tii (to burn) kaayans (the one who shines), thus
> Kaartikeeyan is the deity who shines (kaay) and burn (tii) and
> with that destroys Darkness(kaar) .
I politely but firmly disagree with you on this etymology of Ta.
kArttikEyan, which is but a phonetic adaptation of Skt. kArttikeya.
The appellation kArttikeya was given to the Hindu war-god
skanda/kumAra/ subrahmaNya because, when he was born, he was fostered
by the six kRttikA (the Pleiades), or else because the month of
kArttika (October-November) — thus named because during it the full
moon rises near the Pleiades — was anciently considered the best
for warfare because at that time the rainy season is over.
The kRttkA were originally the first lunar mansion or asterism
(nakSatra), and their name derives from the Skt. root kRt- ‘to cut,
divide’; the rise of the kRttikA in conjunction with the sun at the
vernal equinox, indeed, marked the beginning of the solar year in
ancient India. Thus, the kRttika ‘cut’ or ‘divided’ the solar year
by virtue of their marking the beginning of a new nakSatra cycle.
By the way, the Skt. verbal root kRt- ‘to cut, divide’ has a very
well-supported IE etymology — Pokorny reconstructs the PIE root
from which it would be derived as *(s)ker-t or *(s)kre-t, adducing a
bountiful set of lists of cognate lexemes from most branches of IE.
Kindest regards,
Francesco