Re: [tamil] Re: on learning and teaching Tamil
Well I find your comments extremely interesting and informative. I have so
much to learn. But I am a little shocked that the picture you paint seems so
bleak.
On my visits to TN everyone seems so proud of their language and heritage.
The
written issue is clearly a problem for both Tamils and learners of Tamil,
but surely
the language itself is safe? I mean, it seems hugely vibrant, and with the
massive
film and media and music industries I don't think there is any fear of it
withering on the vine.
Look at how much effort (and passion!) has gone into delivering Tamil fonts
etc.
But I'm an innocent newcomer - perhaps I'm missing some things.
Your point about the 500 English words is fascinating - again, I don't
believe this is
anything to fear. Successful languages beg, borrow and steal words
ruthlessly. Only
languages with a death-wish try to halt this unstoppable natural process.
Shakespeare's
English is a mess of Anglo-Saxon, French, Latin, Celtic influences etc, and
yet so very beautiful and rich.
Of course that is not to denigrate the move to coin new Tamil words; better
to have Tamil words
as first choice. But when more foreign words get through, as they inevitably
will, it's not a disaster.
On cross-channel ferries between England and France, the French buy 'le
sandwich' from 'le snack bar', while the English buy 'a croissant' from 'the
buffet'!
Actually I'd love to know what all 500 of those English words are - very
quick way for me to
attain new vocab!
Our correspondence drove me back to the Schiffman book today; I bought it
when I was almost a complete beginner, and it seemed almost
incomprehensible.
However now that I have a lot more formal Tamil under my belt, I actually
found
that I was more capable of benefitting from it. It is full of all the stuff
I've been longing
to find out about, viz. how the hell do you speak Tamil! So the answer to my
problem
was where it often tends to be - under my nose.
If a Tamil teacher could write a book that marries the less intellectual,
course-book style of
of Kausalya Hart's Tamil For Beginner's with the 'spoken' content of
Professor Schiffman's very
rigorous and scholary A Reference Grammar of Spoken Tamil then they would be
doing a great service to foreign
learners of Tamil, and that, indirectly, would be of service to Tamil people
generally.
I mean, yes you're right, there is not a vast market for Tamil learning
among non-Tamils.
But it's hardly surprising when virtually all the learning materials relate
to formal written
Tamil with its roots in the 13th century. There are people who set out to
learn Tamil, as the
university departments in the US, the UK and Europe attest; more importantly
there are
foreign-born Tamils who long to get in touch with their roots. But the job
is not made easy by this
emphasis on written Tamil. From my original Tamil class, in which half the
students were BBTs (british-born Tamils),
I am the only one who has not yet given up. It is because the learning
materials aren't user-friendly
enough.
I made a discovery today. In the bibliography of the Schiffman book is
listed 'A Core Vocabularly
for Tamil', David McAlpin, 1976, Uni of Penn. I shall try to get hold of it.
Perhaps it answers my
call for a list of the most-used vocab.
I am possibly being naive or ignorant or insensitive, and if so please don't
hesitate to tell me,
but has there been any campaign
in recent history for Tamil to be written as it is spoken? (When I say
spoken I mean Standard Spoken,
as in the kind of language you might hear on the Radio news). There would
be nothing to be scared of. The ancient literature would not
die or disappear, it would still be there for all who wanted to discover it.
Knowledge would be
democratised. And there would be less need to use English as the language of
education and business - English
is exerting enough pressure on the languages of the world, why cooperate
with its dominance by clinging on to
ancient written forms that no one can speak and few people can write?!
I don't think English would have prospered if we were taught to speak modern
English and
write, say, 14th century Chaucerian English.
But you've probably heard all this before - for me its exciting because I'm
approaching everything from first
principles.
Best, M
----- Original Message -----
From: Ram S. Ravindran <rravindr@iupui.edu>
To: Mike Stocks <mds@stocks14.fsnet.co.uk>
Cc: <tamil@tamil.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: [tamil] Re: on learning and teaching Tamil
>
> >
> >Please may I ask a question. What kind of Tamil do the daily newspapers
use?
>
> >What about popular magazines, such as film magazines? Is there any usage
> at all of spoken Tamil in printed form?
>
> nope
>
> most of the Newspapers and mags publish in standard Tamil (formal)
>
> You can hear spoken Tamil (obviously) on TV and Radio
>
> Just like in English, in Tamil too, you can't get published
> unless you use standard Tamil spellings, words and expressions
>
> with regards to 5000 words in any language is the minimum requirement
> to be conversant in any language, here is an interesting reality
>
> of the 5000 words that are needed for everyday use in Tamil Nadu
> you can include 500 transliterated English words too
>
> like
>
> right
> left
> mood
> director
> bridge
> flat
> bottle
> plate
> spoon
> tumbler
> cup
> all vehicles in English
> computer (in fact the Tamil word for computer only the overseas Tamil
> lovers know and use (kaNini)
> book
> notebook
> pen
> pencil
>
> I can go on on
>
> to add to the reality of Tamil Nadu and status of Tamil in TN
>
> In Tamil Nadu and particularly in big towns and citites
> all the children except the very poor go to English medium schools.
>
> Even the poor kids , given the opportunity to attend non-free
> English medium matriculation schools would do so.
>
> This is the way the parents of the children feel in the present day TN.
>
> They have working knowledge of Tamil (that too only spoken form) simply
> because they still use the spoken form of it at home.
>
> You can't get them read out a number in Tamil!
>
> IN the whole state of Tamil Nadu, you can perhaps find 5 or 6 places
> where they may try to teach Tamil, but you will find hundreds of
> institutions that will teach you various levels of English (obviously)
>
> Based on my own experience, I find that one has to learn a new language
> as an adult to be able to teach a language that is your mother tongue.
>
> Along the same line, I feel that a Tamil pulavar (master of tamil)
> may not be the right person to teach Tamil if he/she has not learnt
> another totally different (not English) language.
>
> Being a master of a language is one thing, but having the ability to
> teach that language who doesn't know it is totally different.
>
> Likewise when they talk about Tamil they get carried away with the
> Tamil literature than looking at Tamil language as a functional,
> practical language suitable to express one's thoughts, feelings,
> and emotions.
>
> I also have this feeling that there are not many schools that teach
> Tamil to non-Tamilians is because there is no market for that kind of
> service!
>
> Indy Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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