| To | vazippookkan@yahoo.com, tamil@tamil.net |
| From | "Tenkasi Viswanathan" <viswanathan_t_m@hotmail.com> |
| Date | Fri, 05 Oct 2001 01:54:41 |
| Delivered-To | mailing list tamil@tamil.net |
| Mailing-List | contact tamil-help@tamil.net; run by ezmlm |
> > In > Hinduism, we do not have any Prophet.
> > > >Are you sure ? Are there no prophets in Hinduism ? >then what is your definition of a prophet ? is it >dEva dUthar.. messenger of God,, or is it one who >has reached to lotus feet of the lord or is a >prophet some one who has "become one with the >lord" ?? > >Say, where would you place adi shankarA and >mAdhwAchAriyA ?? are they prophets or ??RESPONSE: I am sorry for not being more definite. Prophet as a Title is not used in Hinduism in general. Mahtma Gandhi is not Prophet Gandhi, even though some may conisder him as a prophet of modern India.
Adi Shankara is Sankaracharya. He cannot be Prophet Sankara. The Title Acharya is a unique one in Hinduism, meaning a teacher of mankind. The modern version Jagad Guru does not have the same force as the word "Acharya" in a title. The word literally means source of conduct. That is the three Great Acharyas were models of conduct and thinking both through precept and example. They model divine coduct.
> > > > In the New > > Testament, we do not have any Prophets. > > In the Old Testament, we have several Prophets. > > We have Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah, etc. > > They all existed before Prophet Mohammed. So > > Prophets belong to the tradition of Judaism and > > Islam and their off-shoots that preserve these > > currents. In modern times, Baha'Ullah is a > > Prophet, and he is the only one I know of, who > > would contradict the claim to Prophet Mohammed > > being the Last Prophet. > > > >Let us say I am a follower of Shri Ramakrishna's >philosophy or that I am attracted by Shri >Aravindar's (Arabindo's) and Holy mother's >philosophies. So what happens to them ? or what >happens to their preaching ?RESPONSE: A title is a way of recognition --- something like a conferral of a degree. It lays claim to a recognition so that both posterity and the then current social traditions might appreciate the person's contributions to humanity and all life and all of God's Creation.
Shri Ramakrishna is Bhagavan Shri RamaKrishna, meaning a Guru, a teacher who revived an old forgotten tradition bringing light and life (Prana) into the life of thousands of people. About Shri Ramana, he is Bhagavan Ramana in the same sense as Sri Ramakrishna. He revived another forgotten tradition -- the method of elimination so effectively used in maths and science. Shri Ramana is also Ramana Mahrashi, because he emanated a happy personality having eliminated everything in a practical sense.
Shri Aurobindo is also not Prophet Aurobindo. Certainly he is a very effective prophet like Swami Vivekanand. But his Title is Shri, because he brings us a new kind of wealth, the great potential of the human mind.
>I am deeply disturbed by your >statement above. What do you mean by saying that >"..bahi'ullah is a prophet and he is the **only >one** I (Mr. Visu) knows.." > >come on.. where would you place Shri Ramana >maharishi, who was born after prophet muhammed ??As stated above you do not address Ramana Maharshi as Prophet Ramana.
>Hey wait a moment, does "prophet" mean some one>who comes and professes that he is a prophet ??
RESPONSE: I am sorry. I meant the use of Prophet as a Title. But I agree that the person must agree to its use. For example, Prophet Mohammed is not Mohammed Avathar. We speak of Krishna Avathar. But to speak of Avathar in Islam may be a blasphemy, since in Islam, God has no visible form. Gandhi refused to be recognized as an Avathar or as a Mahatma. But we do not need his consent to address him as Mahatma. But to be an Avathar, we would need his consent.
>and where do the true muslims place shri ramaNa
>maharishi ? >RESPONSE: I am a teacher. I tell my students that if they get angry with the toilet, it is no loss to the toilet.
Ewri Mewle KowviththukKondu Pownawl, Yawrukku Nashhtam?
> > > > Of course, I understand that the Bahais have > > been persecuted in Iran. > > > > > >I am not sure if your have "understood' how >religious minorities are treated in an islamic >country. You may have used the word "understood" >above in a very loose way. > >That is like trying to read >a song and saying you have understood the words in >the song. But I am not sure if that is the same >"understanding" for the people who have lived
>and are living through religious atrocities.
RESPONSE: I agree. I just wanted to stay clear of another controversy. I did not want to generate a second line of argument. But I know their sufferings and trials.
>If you want a 0.001% understanding of how
>"non-muslims" are treated in an islamic country >try traveling to jeddah with a PERSONAL copy of >Bhagavad Gita or any other book you really like / >and read daily. See what they do you Bhagavad gita >/ or other priced books you have been reading over >the years. See how they tear it and stamp it etc. >Then my friend you will get a 0.001% >"understanding" of what cutting bhais to pieces >would mean.RESPONSE: One answe is to organize a world-wide campaign against such practices and seek to boycott their products. The world of Internet can do it. Preferably the organizers have to be outside these countries. Something like Amnesty International. The theme will be Human Soul Rights, dealing only with religion to begin with. For example, we could organize a world-wide "Petroleum-free day", where no one will use "oil", "gas" etc for one day on a voluntary basis. No cars will be driven. No private buses will be on ther road. Just one day. Preferably, Krishna Jaynathi. No motors of any machine will roll.
>Many in this list will come out saying, why should
>you travel to Saudi Arabia and that too with a >copy of a hindu / christian holy book ? Fine we >don't have to ? But what if Bangalore becomes the >next Saudi Arabia ? what if your viittu koolai >becomes another johadi's target ? that is what I >am trying to ask you . > >The muslims want to convert the whole world into >"world - of - muslims" . This is one of the basic >problems. In their world every gita and every >Bible is due to be torn. > RESPONSE: ORGANIZE A world-muslin day, when every non-muslim will be encouraged to give a piece of muslin cloth to a muslim. Preferably, the day after Deepavali. > > > > > The point I am making is that a Hindu, > > Budhdhist, or Christian should not have any > > difficulty in accepting Prophet Mohammed as the > > Last Prophet. > > >>aiyO thaivamE !
RESPONSE: Our mythology is an exercise in using words of a person against himself. Women, please excuse me. I do not know of any woman Rakshashi whose words were used against her by God. The most famous examples are: Ravana, and Hiranya Kachipu. God created an image that would counter the boons that had been carefully worded by these Rakshasas. After all we need words to give meaning to what we want to say. Let us not put more meaning in a word than what it says. That is law.
> > > > > It is a historical fact, if words > > mean what they are supposed to mean. > > > >I really don't know what to say, in reply to the >above paragraph(s) of yours. >- May be you really believe that Prophet Mohammed >is the Last Prophet and that everyone has to >follow his preaching / actions >- May be with a view to appeasing the muslims you >have made a far reaching statement and in the >process trying to pawn every other individual's >religious >freedom >- May be with a view to settling matters "quick" >in the tamil.net you have come to a "quick - fix - >remedy" > >But please, please sit back and read that >paragraph of yours. If Muhammed is the only >prophet and if any one who came after him isn't a >prophet, what happens to all our religious freedom >? what happens to some one's personal liberty to >say that he can be an atheist..RESPONSE: I do not think that an atheist would want to say that he is Prophet Atheist.
>Hey forget all that. If I'd like to have a beer
>with you at a road side pub do you think I should >be whipped 40 times ?? come on.. you are trying to >preach a remedy where the "quick - fix - remedy" >of EVERY ONE accepting islam is a far far greater >disease than some angry voices on the tamil net > > > > > > We cannot change the meaning of words for too > > long, even though the british have done that > > often with impunity. > > > > Just a thought. > > > > Regards from Visu > > > >Dear Mr. Viswanathan : > >I think you are obsessed with the British and the >royals and so on and so forth. >- May be the Royals harmed you personally. I do >not know. >- May be you personally mis Lady Diana very much >(no >offence meant..my grand mother did.. rAsAththiyA >irunthALe.. ippadi posukkunnu pooyittaaLee used to >be her words. ) >- May be you are blaming India's ills on the >royals.RESPONSE: I do not want to start another line of argument on this. My Guru on the royals is Mr. Lyndon LaRouche. He has helped me to undestand a number of vexing questions on the competence of our ancestors. I am so grateful to Mr. LaRouche. More information at www.larouchepub.com or www.larouchein2004.com
>
>Well all of us have our "own" obsessions. After >all I may be obsessed with Fosters ! But pal, just >don't make such sweeping statements like... >"Prophet Mohammed is the Last Prophet.." Don't de >-value yourself. > >Again, I appreciate you idea "win by argument". >Luckily for us we can argue as we are not in the >Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But some how I can't >subscribe to the argument that "if we can't beat >them, let us join them :-) :-) " Have you >suscribed to that ?? >RESPONSE: I wonder what Prophet VaLLUvar would have said? I mean ThiruVaLLuvar --- Used as one word, it is a title. Used as two words, it is not.
>regards
> Regards too. MuLLai MuLLal EdungaL sir. An argument is won by a counter argument. Please refer to Prophet Lord Narasimha Avathar.
>vazippookkan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. >http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1